oupsemma wrote:

...but do you think it is possible to reinstall Xandros from the DVD then , instead of rebooting for the first creation of the user  and password setting up , to change the /usr/sbin/services.sh script  with what you told us , and no further surreptitious update will occur ?

To the best of my knowledge, as long as you don't connect to the Internet, Xandros/ASUS won't try to do a stealth update, so you can safely do the re-install, reboot, and creation of the first user and then edit /usr/sbin/services.sh

BTY, this doesn't protect you from updates that overwrite simpleui.rc  You still need a backup if you are going to use the Asus "Add/Remove" application under Settings. I personally will not use this utility and stick with Synaptic and apt-get for updates and installation of new applications.  Both of these applications will tell you if there is any additional software dependencies and ask you before they install these packages.

I checked services.sh on my 900, no xandros-update entry. 901 and/or higher models only perhaps?

I have a 4G, bought in May, software version 1.0.1 - and I do not have that line in my services.sh

Is this perhaps someting Asus added on newer machines to make it easier to update?

Quite possible - for what it is worth mine is a US model.

<off topic>
Re: clothes and weather - "det finnes ikke dårlig vær, bare dårlige klær" was the unoficial motto for my company during bootcamp - in Northern Norway, January '93...
</off topic>

Does this apply to the 1000 models?

I never use Add/Remove software , and the only applications I've been adding were Opera and Real Player 11 ; never did any update .
And now when I peruse my file manager , I have some nlite related files ( WTF are they doing here , on my Linux computer!) , and lots of files i never came across before (and it is not because i have not been exploring the file manager before , it's the kind of thing I'm fond of).
I will put my significant files in a safe place , and sweep this away!

Skaffen wrote:

The updater only "stealth updates" the icons and categories for the launcher (this is on models with the 1.6 os).

If you look at:
http://update.eeepc.asus.com/1.6/updates.xml

This is the file that lists the updates available (and is what the update service checks periodically). The two packages in the asus-categories section are the updates that seem to get automatically installed. No idea why asus do that, perhaps to be able to add new languages or icons linking to services. The categories deb is what contains the simpleui.rc file. The user is notified about other updates.

I'm not sure I'd count this as stealth software updates - it's an update of icons and the icon/category configuration for the launcher and that's it.

If ASUS do a software update for whatever reason, on whatever file or files, without notifying me, they doing a stealth update.  If you have objections to the use of stealth, perhaps we can say "ASUS are guilty of installing software updates without first asking my permission".  You can sugar coat it all you want, but ASUS are modifying the OS on my PC without my permission!

Skaffen wrote:

As for the claim of "considerable difference" - perhaps you could diff the before/after files to look at what the differences entail. The only reason I can think of for the file size to go up significantly is if they add support for extra languages - the file contains the text for the categories/icons in the launcher in a variety of languages, so if the count has gone up I suspect they've just added translations for an extra language.

I'm quite happy to bash asus over their update service problems (and have done), but IMHO you're creating a tempest in a teacup with this claim of stealth updates.

The magnitude is the update is irrelevant.  The first time this happened was back in November 2007 on my original 701.  An ASUS update overwrote my customizations to simpleui.rc  A September 2008-901 update clobbered simpleui.rc re-arranged the tab order,  put two file-managers into the Work tab.  This change pissed me off so much that I went in search of xandros-update-service  As I said in my original post a couple of F9 resets and I found that ASUS do an update as soon as you connect you factory fresh Eee PC to the Internet.  The update process starts within 30 seconds and most of that time is taken up by DHCP getting at TCP/IP lease. Even a Windows XP machine with no firewall lasts a couple of minutes longer than that!

You may think it ok for ASUS to update your machine at any time in any manner with a "by your leave", but I don't   ASUS build a great product.  If they didn't, I would have never purchased a second machine from them, but I don't want them doing updates without asking my permission.

If it is yellow with webbed feed, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, I call it a duck.  You can call it something else if you want to.  A stealth software update remains a stealth software update in my books.

My 2G Surf has the following loop in the /usr/sbin/services.sh file
if [-f /etc/fastservices]; then
for i in `cat /etc/fastservices`; do
/usr/sbin/invoke-rc.d $i start
done
fi
However the file /etc/fastservices does not exist in my system so the loop doesn't execute. It's possible that xandros-update-service appears in /etc/fastservices in other models. Maybe others can check if their system has that file.

So it seems there's only viable solution if we want to get rid of that Big Brother's way of doing , to throw away Xandros and its recovery DVD  ; let's break ourselves free!   

Skaffen wrote:

Your hyperbole seems to be because you hacked the one data file (other than icons) that gets updated by this mechanism - simpleui.rc - and it annoyed you that the changes got lost. Modifying any core file on an OS is risky unless you know exactly how the file is used and managed (e.g. what may overwrite/reset it). I'm not sure asus make any claims about what the update service will or won't do either.

Please stop the ad hominem arguments.  I can understand your problems with my English as it is a second language for me.  I have problems with American/Canadian/British spellings.

Your missing the point of my complaint.  The "asus update service..." has "...automatically..." updated a file on my computer.  Since they have done it once, it is highly probable that ASUS will do it again in the future.  Since they have done it to one file, it is highly likely they will do it to other files.  It may be hyperbole, but I don't want ASUS or anyone else modifying my software without my permission.

Skaffen wrote:

What I'd prefer to call it is "asus update service will automatically update simpleui.rc and the icon files". Your language of "stealth software updates" is alarmist in tone.

Not proven that ASUS will limit updates to simpleui.rc and icon files.  IMOSHO, your suggested title fails to convey the rather cavalier attitude by ASUS in making changes "because we decided to..."

Skaffen wrote:

I'd have no complaint if your original post said "asus update service will automatically update your simpleui.rc file, so if you make changes to it and don't want to lose them you may want to disable the update service however doing so will have these consequences for getting operating system updates".

Out of interest, how sure are you that "Add/Remove Software" still allows update installation with the update service disabled? I could be wrong, but I have a vague feeling that XNLite talks to UpdateService to actually manage the update installation (although it's been a while since I looked at it).

BTW, for those who've disabled the update service so don't see updates - there is now an update available (amusingly) for the update service. Given how long it's taken Asus to provide it, hopefully it's been properly tested and will now allow for them to ship other updates I suspect they've been holding back on. Although I'm not holding out too much hope given their track record to date.

I'm not very sure at all that "Add/Remove" will still work.  It appears to download changes even after my "hack".  Will it auto-notify you of new changes/additions?  Most likely not.

@Niel 1952
Well , if Xandros people were telling it clearly , why bother , that's true . But here the problem is that we are not asked anything , things are done surreptitiously , and that's what I dislike the most . I'm perhaps slightly paranoiac , only I can't see where the limits are , and who is fixing these limits . So I have to fix them myself and this means 'au revoir à jamais xandros'.

@claude j greengrass
thanks for showing us all that!

Last edited by oupsemma (2008-10-01 4:59:36 am)

I'm far from convinced by this argument, and the teacup maybe stormy but from what I can see all that's been alleged is that the system copy of simpleui.rc has been updated by Asus once, just after installation. Post-install updates are common in Linux systems (windows too of course), it's just a way of getting the latest fixes onto new installations. AS for the file, the wiki tells us:
"Well, when booting in Easy Mode the system looks in two places for simpleui.rc: first in any /home/user/.Asuslauncher/ directory and then in the /opt/xandros/share/AsusLauncher/ directory"

So in the usual way with Linux Xandros allows us to put a custom version of a setup file in our home directory using the system file as template. From then on, the user file is used to setup the system and the system file is ignored. Nothing new there then. If you don't want that user file changed, use chmod to turn it read-only. In fact set 'umask 77' in some startup file to keep new files, at least, restricted.

It may be there are mechanisms in place to update the Operating System as and when the supplier feels it necessary, but there are lots of fragments of the Operating System hanging around apparently not in use, bad development practice but it happens.

It's true that it would be un-acceptable to have your machine one day happily playing videos and composing emails, only to find the next day that VLC was replaced by Totem and that Thunderbird was replaced by Mulberry (although many would think the latter would be an improvement). You don't want a machine built on shifting sands. But no-one is claiming that degree of unmanaged change are they?