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#1 2007-10-29 5:16:00 pm

Engineer
Senior Member
From: Germany
Registered: 2007-10-18
Posts: 669

What is on Partitions 3 and 4 ?

On the 8G, it may be possible to install 2 OSs, the Asus/Xandros original and one else, M$
or a better featured linux. But this would require an additional partition.

Before anything is changed, the original partitioning needs to analyzed.
According to eFefM, fdisk says:

Disk /dev/sda: 4001 MB, 4001292288 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 486 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes

   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sda1               1         300     2409718+  83  Linux
/dev/sda2             301         484     1477980   83  Linux
/dev/sda3             485         485        8032+   c  W95 FAT32 (LBA)
/dev/sda4             486         486        8032+  ef  EFI (FAT-12/16/32)

It seems obvious that sda1 contaiins the OS, sda2 the user data.
But what about sda3 and sda4 ?

Are they used for the BIOS ?

If the BIOS expects to read from primary partition 4, then it will be complicated to increase the number of partitions.


The three most dangerous things in the world are a programmer with a soldering iron,
a hardware type with a program patch and a user with an idea    --computer saying / R. Cook

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#2 2007-10-29 5:25:02 pm

ant
Administrator
Registered: 2007-06-08
Posts: 691

Re: What is on Partitions 3 and 4 ?

One of them is a hidden partition for system recovery. It's one of three methods of restoring the original Xandros install, according to the user manual. The other two methods are: using the included support DVD or creating a usb flash disk restore (if you don't have an external dvd drive...)-- interesting.


eeeuser.com

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#3 2007-10-29 5:39:25 pm

Engineer
Senior Member
From: Germany
Registered: 2007-10-18
Posts: 669

Re: What is on Partitions 3 and 4 ?

8 MB is not much for system recovery. If the kernel or the initrd are damaged, how can the eee be booted ?

/etc/grub/menu.lst has three targets, they all try to read from the first partition:

title Normal Boot
    root (0x80,0)
    kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.21.4-eeepc quiet rw vga=785 irqpoll root=/dev/sda1
    initrd /boot/initramfs-eeepc.img

title Perform Disk Scan
    root (0x80,0)
    kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.21.4-eeepc quiet rw vga=785 irqpoll root=/dev/sda1 XANDROSSCAN=y
    initrd /boot/initramfs-eeepc.img

title Restore Factory Settings
    root (0x80,0)
    kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.21.4-eeepc quiet rw vga=normal nosplash=y irqpoll root=/dev/sda1 XANDROSRESTORE=y
    initrd /boot/initramfs-eeepc.img

So grub ignores all other partitions.


The three most dangerous things in the world are a programmer with a soldering iron,
a hardware type with a program patch and a user with an idea    --computer saying / R. Cook

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#4 2007-10-30 7:02:22 am

eFfeM
Senior Member
Registered: 2007-10-21
Posts: 861
Website

Re: What is on Partitions 3 and 4 ?

sda1 and sda2 are both used and mounted through unionfs on /
one of them is read only.
forgot about sda3
sda4 is /tmp (hope I did not mix up sda3 and sda4)


All opinions, information etc in this forum post is copyrighted by me (eFfeM) unless indicated otherwise.
You are free to reuse whatever you want to, provided that:
1) you give credit to me and eeeuser.com whenever you reuse anything for all things you reused.
2) you do not pretend or create the illusion that your modifications are mine. I'll be responsible for my junk, you for yours smile

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#5 2007-10-30 6:20:19 pm

Engineer
Senior Member
From: Germany
Registered: 2007-10-18
Posts: 669

Re: What is on Partitions 3 and 4 ?

8 MB seems quite small for /tmp


The three most dangerous things in the world are a programmer with a soldering iron,
a hardware type with a program patch and a user with an idea    --computer saying / R. Cook

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#6 2007-10-31 5:36:56 am

eFfeM
Senior Member
Registered: 2007-10-21
Posts: 861
Website

Re: What is on Partitions 3 and 4 ?

checked.
/dev/sda3 contains the bios image (701.rom)
I can't mount /dev/sda4 as there is no such entry in /dev
/dev/sda5 is not a valid block device


All opinions, information etc in this forum post is copyrighted by me (eFfeM) unless indicated otherwise.
You are free to reuse whatever you want to, provided that:
1) you give credit to me and eeeuser.com whenever you reuse anything for all things you reused.
2) you do not pretend or create the illusion that your modifications are mine. I'll be responsible for my junk, you for yours smile

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#7 2007-10-31 6:35:42 am

superpat
Senior Member
Registered: 2007-10-19
Posts: 102

Re: What is on Partitions 3 and 4 ?

Hi All

The last partition is formatted as "EFI"

I had not come across this file type before so had a Google.

www.mactel-linux.org/wiki/EFI


It states 

Extensible Firmware Interface (EFI) is the name for a system developed by Intel that is designed to replace the aging BIOS system used by personal computers. It is responsible for the power-on self-test (POST) process, bootstrapping the operating system, and providing an interface between the operating system and the physical hardware.

Now Please explain to me how this partition is used in the EEE PC?


cheers

Patrick

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#8 2007-10-31 6:46:38 am

superpat
Senior Member
Registered: 2007-10-19
Posts: 102

Re: What is on Partitions 3 and 4 ?

Hi

I have re read the article I quoted in my previous post, There is one paragraph that sticks out:-

Extensions to EFI can be loaded from virtually any non-volatile storage device attached to the computer. For example, an original equipment manufacturer (OEM) can sell systems with a hidden EFI partition on the hard drive which would add additional functions to the standard EFI BIOS stored on the motherboard's ROM. EFI can also provide a small shell environment; rather than booting directly into a full OS, the user can boot to an EFI shell. This is an optional intermediate step in the booting process which can be used to run diagnostic or configuration utilities, or even play CDs or DVDs without a complete operating system.

In another post I was whining on about  whether and how the EEEPS performs a restore from the provided CD, I was told it was an image copy, but that still begged the point  of how the EEEpc bootstrapped itself.  I believe that the EEEPC uses the EFI system to bootstrap itself to rebuild the ext2fs partitions, though I could be wrong, I generally am!

cheers

Patrick

Last edited by superpat (2007-10-31 6:47:36 am)

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#9 2007-10-31 5:38:34 pm

Engineer
Senior Member
From: Germany
Registered: 2007-10-18
Posts: 669

Re: What is on Partitions 3 and 4 ?

eFfeM wrote:

checked.
/dev/sda3 contains the bios image (701.rom)
I can't mount /dev/sda4 as there is no such entry in /dev
/dev/sda5 is not a valid block device

Is that the ONLY copy of the bios image  ?

It is possible that the eee mainboard does not have a separate BIOS flash but uses sda3
and sda4 for the BIOS itself (sda3) and for the "Extensible Firmware Interface" (sda4) which may contain the user's customization.

But if the users can modify the partition table, this is disaster waiting to happen. If the BIOS is destroyed, you cannot even boot the restoration DVD.

Would one of the eee owners be willing to make some experiments ? Volunteers should be living next to an Asus service center hmm. What does the manual say ?

On the other hand, the flash controller only EMULATES a hard disk with partition table, so maybe the eee's partition table is carved in stone, disregarding root privileges.

For the 4GB version, it makes no sense to change the partitioning, but for the >=8 GB versions, it would be nice to be able to create separate partitions for different OSs with a multiboot grub menu.


The three most dangerous things in the world are a programmer with a soldering iron,
a hardware type with a program patch and a user with an idea    --computer saying / R. Cook

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#10 2007-10-31 5:50:12 pm

bfbf
Senior Member
Registered: 2007-10-26
Posts: 141

Re: What is on Partitions 3 and 4 ?

mmm Ye that could be disaster if some n00b goes lets install windows. And decides to go for the wipe and start again.

But surly this can not be the case...

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#11 2007-11-01 7:02:55 am

Engineer
Senior Member
From: Germany
Registered: 2007-10-18
Posts: 669

Re: What is on Partitions 3 and 4 ?

I have seen the eee disassembled on two websites. A separate BIOS-flash is shown on neither disassembly.

From an engineeering perspective, it makes sense to have only one flash, the question is only how good it is secured against accidential overwrite.

Still looking for volunteers to experiment !


The three most dangerous things in the world are a programmer with a soldering iron,
a hardware type with a program patch and a user with an idea    --computer saying / R. Cook

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#12 2007-11-01 8:14:14 am

quagga
Senior Member
From: Virginia, Earth
Registered: 2007-10-31
Posts: 411

Re: What is on Partitions 3 and 4 ?

Well, here's a question then.  When you set "installing new OS" or whatever it is in the Bios before installing a new OS, what do these partitions look like?  Does the BIOS protect them (ie, they disappear)?  If so, that would be a good case for not deleting them. 

Sorry I can't answer this myself.  My eee doesn't arrive until tomorrow.

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#13 2007-11-01 8:47:26 am

Qatz
Senior Member
From: In your hair.
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 212

Re: What is on Partitions 3 and 4 ?

If you want to try mounting the efi to see whats in it, you could try "mount -t vfat /dev/sda4 /mnt/sda4" being that the efi fs is based on fat it may work.
*note if there is no /dev/sda4 you will have to do a "mknod" to add it. Look here "http://linux.die.net/man/4/hd" for more details.


Beer?
4G White 701a with Flash PCI-E Slot | 2 gig Ram | Gentoo | Kernel 2.6.25.4

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#14 2007-11-01 4:20:03 pm

Jimbo
Member
Registered: 2007-09-05
Posts: 32

Re: What is on Partitions 3 and 4 ?

The manual tells you to delete all partitions when installing windows.  It seems that if you don't delete all partitions, the bios partition remains the bootable one and windows won't boot.  Can anyone confirm we should indeed delete all partitions as the manual says.

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#15 2007-11-01 4:42:51 pm

Jimbo
Member
Registered: 2007-09-05
Posts: 32

Re: What is on Partitions 3 and 4 ?

Ok, after sweating it a bit, I did as the manual says and deleted all partitions. Then windows boots.  So the partition called Bios is a poorly choosen description of the boot sector/primary partition.  There must be a bios chip and there appears to be a bios function to restore the factory config.  That would be done prior to restoring the original software from the restore disk, and presumably, it repartitions the onboard storage to where it was originally. (just a guess)

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#16 2007-11-01 6:32:27 pm

Engineer
Senior Member
From: Germany
Registered: 2007-10-18
Posts: 669

Re: What is on Partitions 3 and 4 ?

So if the BIOS still works after deleting all partitions, why are sda3 and sda4 present in he original setup ? According to menu.lst, the bootloader is installed in the first partition.

Could you post the partition table as seen by windows ? Are all 486 cylinders combined into one large partition or are two cylinders (the former sda3 and sda4) still missing ?


The three most dangerous things in the world are a programmer with a soldering iron,
a hardware type with a program patch and a user with an idea    --computer saying / R. Cook

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#17 2007-11-02 12:19:59 am

JDP
Senior Member
Registered: 2007-09-17
Posts: 186

Re: What is on Partitions 3 and 4 ?

EFI is a newer replacement for BIOS.  Many servers and all new Intel-based Macs use EFI - I'm a tad surprised the Eee PC might.  EFI can emulate the legacy BIOS interface for non-EFI compliant OSs (like Windows).

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#18 2007-11-02 6:35:22 am

superpat
Senior Member
Registered: 2007-10-19
Posts: 102

Re: What is on Partitions 3 and 4 ?

@engineer

Hi

I think you are correct.  I also have looked and Googled for any reference to a separate Bios chip on the EEEPC m/b. I cannot find one either.  It makes engineering sense there as there is a 2GB+ (dep on model) of flash memory on board then use it to hold the BIOS.  I am sure that the SSD control chip (SM223) is quite capable of making the last two blocks read only when commanded to for that purpose.

It would be instructive to dissemble the ASUS Bios updater utility and see what IO commands it does. ( is the SM223 wired up to the GPIO bus? )

Unfortunately the Silicon Motion company that makes the SM223 are very close with the details of their chip and the capabilities. However if you have a look at  www.nextwarehouse.com/DS/iERP/ATA_SMB_DMA.pdf .

This is a data sheet for an ATA flash card that uses the Silicon Motion SM222 chip (similar to the SM223), There are pages and pages of control register details there. I know its not exactly the same but it does give you some idea how powerful the SM223 is!

I am still unclear why there are two partitions for the BIOS and the EFI. Windows XP does not support EFI, however the Intel 950 chip set does, the EFI article I read said it was disabled at this time.  Perhaps the EFI apartition is for future expansion.

However I may be wrong as usual,  Has anyone seen a BIOS CHIP on the eeepc motherboard ????

regards

Patrick

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#19 2007-11-02 6:47:09 am

betaluva
Member
From: planet earth
Registered: 2007-08-23
Posts: 13
Website

Re: What is on Partitions 3 and 4 ?

maybe asus were playing around wiith vista on the Eee?,if i remember correctly beta 1 of vista supported efi.

Last edited by betaluva (2007-11-02 6:47:37 am)


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#20 2007-11-02 7:35:16 am

eFfeM
Senior Member
Registered: 2007-10-21
Posts: 861
Website

Re: What is on Partitions 3 and 4 ?

Qatz wrote:

If you want to try mounting the efi to see whats in it, you could try "mount -t vfat /dev/sda4 /mnt/sda4" being that the efi fs is based on fat it may work.
*note if there is no /dev/sda4 you will have to do a "mknod" to add it. Look here "http://linux.die.net/man/4/hd" for more details.

did the mknod, but the mount fails
dmesg says: bogus number of resevered sectors
and:  can't find a valid FAT filesystem on /dev/sda4

so most likely it is in the partition table, but it is just empty and not formatted


All opinions, information etc in this forum post is copyrighted by me (eFfeM) unless indicated otherwise.
You are free to reuse whatever you want to, provided that:
1) you give credit to me and eeeuser.com whenever you reuse anything for all things you reused.
2) you do not pretend or create the illusion that your modifications are mine. I'll be responsible for my junk, you for yours smile

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#21 2007-11-02 7:50:56 am

RichIOM
Senior Member
From: Isle of Man, UK
Registered: 2007-10-31
Posts: 132

Re: What is on Partitions 3 and 4 ?

If there's a partition purely for restore purposes can't this be removed and expanded to allow more storage space?

If you've got a restore cd surely you don't need a partition as well?  It's just wasted space on a unit which doesn't have much to spare.

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#22 2007-11-02 7:59:42 am

Qatz
Senior Member
From: In your hair.
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 212

Re: What is on Partitions 3 and 4 ?

eFfeM wrote:

did the mknod, but the mount fails
dmesg says: bogus number of resevered sectors
and:  can't find a valid FAT filesystem on /dev/sda4

so most likely it is in the partition table, but it is just empty and not formatted

Hmmm sounds like the node wasn't made right try "dd if=/dev/sda4 of=sda4.bin" this will write a file called sda4.bin in your working dir. It should be a clone of the sda4 partition(Which you can mount via loopback) if it gives you an error message or produces a file with a size of 0, then the node is faulty.


Beer?
4G White 701a with Flash PCI-E Slot | 2 gig Ram | Gentoo | Kernel 2.6.25.4

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#23 2007-11-02 7:59:55 am

Engineer
Senior Member
From: Germany
Registered: 2007-10-18
Posts: 669

Re: What is on Partitions 3 and 4 ?

Some analysis suggests these two partitions are needed for the BIOS, but the manual seems to require them to be deleted before installing windows. Since even windows cannot be started without a functional BIOS, this is odd.

I see two possibilities :
1. They really contain the BIOS but cannot be deleted by editing the partition table.
2. They are leftovers from some experimenting in the Asus design process.


The three most dangerous things in the world are a programmer with a soldering iron,
a hardware type with a program patch and a user with an idea    --computer saying / R. Cook

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#24 2007-11-02 8:24:23 am

Qatz
Senior Member
From: In your hair.
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 212

Re: What is on Partitions 3 and 4 ?

The efi partition is normally used on linux and mac machines. Often it will contain things like your boot loader, diagnostic apps, kernels, and restore software. Its simply pre-os goodies that are more advanced then the standard bios itself. In most cases its just a partition at the beginning of your hard disk. However is some circumstances it can be a chip thats read only. In the case of linux based os's its normally just a fat partition containing a boot loader and or kernels. What I suspect is that the eeepc supports the efi specification, but they don't want you playing with it so they provide no node to it. As to what sda3 is used for I have no clue I will just have to wait for UPS to drop off my EEEPC(sigh shipped ground from Texas to Maine)


Beer?
4G White 701a with Flash PCI-E Slot | 2 gig Ram | Gentoo | Kernel 2.6.25.4

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#25 2007-11-02 9:27:07 am

Jimbo
Member
Registered: 2007-09-05
Posts: 32

Re: What is on Partitions 3 and 4 ?

As I recall, and as stated by others, there were 4 partitions originally with the linux install.  after installing windows, and deleting all partitions in the process, there is now only one active partition.  The table reads:

3813 MB Disk 0 at Id 0 on bus 0 on atapi [MBR]

C: Partition1  [NTFS]                      3804 MB < 2802 MB free>
     unpartitioned space                        8 MB

That's it boys and girls.  Hope it helps.

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