261 replies to this topic

[CorvetteZ0606]

Ok, this is how I did it. I don't guarantee it will work for you, but it worked for me.

Stuff I used to install windows:
PC with DVD burner
external DVD reader
USB thumb drive ( I used a Corsair Flash Voyager 8GB)
blank CD
SDHC card 8GB ( I used a Transcend TS8GSDHC6)
EEE pc
WinHex version 14.5 full version
Hitachi Microdrive Filter
Nero (I used version 6)
BootExtract (freeware)
Cabsdk (microsoft freeware)
Windows XP SP1 (I used my Virginia Tech Volume Liscencing Disk. I don't know if this matters.)



First, the bios needs set up. Here are my settings:
Advanced: IDE config: master and slave both set to auto
Onboard Devices: All enabled (Originally the camera was disabled, but somehow it got enabled without me changing it. I don't know what's up there.)
Os Installation: Finished (I kept it this way through the whole process)

Boot:
Priority:
1st: removabe device
2nd: HDD sm-siliconmoti
3rd: USB-Pioneer DVDrw
Hard disk Drives: (I somehow got this feature added to the bios. I don't know exactly what I did to get it, it wasn't there originally. I have NOT updated the bios. I have version 02.58 bios. I think it might be from something I set in advanced.)
1st: HDD:sm-siliconmoti
2nd: usb:usb2.0 CardRea
Boot Settings Config:
Quickboot enabled
Quietboot disabled
Onboard LAN boot ROM: disabled

after setting up your EEE bios, you need to go back to your other PC to make a custom XP install disk. I suggest using a rewritable incase you screw up the first time.


Making the disk:
(note, this procedure was taken from http://www.ngine.de/...sp?pageid=4176)
Thank them for inventing this!
1. Copy all files from your XP disk to a folder on your C drive.
2. Move these files from your C:\XP_disk\i386 folder to a seprate temp dir:
TXTSETUP.SIF
DOSNET.INF
USB.IN_
USBPORT.IN_
USBSTOR.IN_
3. Install Microsoft cabsdk to the temp folder
4. Open a command prompt. type the following:
cabarc x USBSTOR.IN_
cabarc x USBPORT.IN_
cabarc x USB.IN_
5. Delete the following files:
USB.IN_
USBPORT.IN_
USBSTOR.IN_

6. Edit the files to match the following:
txtsetup.sif:
move the following lines from [InputDevicesSupport.Load] to [BootBusExtenders.Load]
usbehci = usbehci.sys
usbohci = usbohci.sys
usbuhci = usbuhci.sys
usbhub = usbhub.sys
usbstor = usbstor.sys

Move the following lines from [InputDevicesSupport] to [BootBusExtenders]
usbehci = "Erweiterter Hostcontroller",files.usbehci,usbehci
usbohci = "Open Hostcontroller",files.usbohci,usbohci
usbuhci = "Universeller Hostcontroller",files.usbuhci,usbuhci
usbhub = "Standard-USB-Hubtreiber",files.usbhub,usbhub
usbstor = "USB-Speicherklassentreiber",files.usbstor,usbstor

Add the following line to the end of [HiveInfs.Fresh]
AddReg = usbboot.inf,usbservices

Add the following line to the beginning of [SourceDisksFiles]
usbboot.inf = 1,,,,,,_x,3,,3

Save file
Open Dosnet.inf
Change [Files] block so it looks like this:
[Files]
d1,usbboot.inf
d1,_default.pif
d1,12520437.cpx
d1,12520850.cpx
….
Save and close file
Open USB.inf
Change these two sections so they look like this:
Change the [StandardHub.AddService] and [CommonClassParent.AddService] sections:
[StandardHub.AddService]
DisplayName = %StandardHub.SvcDesc%
ServiceType = 1 ; SERVICE_KERNEL_DRIVER
StartType = 0 ; SERVICE_DEMAND_START
ErrorControl = 1 ; SERVICE_ERROR_NORMAL
ServiceBinary = %12%\usbhub.sys
LoadOrderGroup = Boot Bus Extender

[CommonClassParent.AddService]
DisplayName = %GenericParent.SvcDesc%
ServiceType = 1 ; SERVICE_KERNEL_DRIVER
StartType = 0 ; SERVICE_DEMAND_START
ErrorControl = 1 ; SERVICE_ERROR_NORMAL
ServiceBinary = %12%\usbccgp.sys
LoadOrderGroup = Boot Bus Extender

Save and close file.
Open usbport.inf:
Change the [EHCI.AddService], [OHCI.AddService] , [UHCI.AddService] and [ROOTHUB.AddService] sections:
[EHCI.AddService]
DisplayName = %EHCIMP.SvcDesc%
ServiceType = 1 ; SERVICE_KERNEL_DRIVER
StartType = 0 ; SERVICE_DEMAND_START
ErrorControl = 1 ; SERVICE_ERROR_NORMAL
ServiceBinary = %12%\usbehci.sys
LoadOrderGroup = Boot Bus Extender
[OHCI.AddService]
DisplayName = %OHCIMP.SvcDesc%
ServiceType = 1 ; SERVICE_KERNEL_DRIVER
StartType = 0 ; SERVICE_DEMAND_START
ErrorControl = 1 ; SERVICE_ERROR_NORMAL
ServiceBinary = %12%\usbohci.sys
LoadOrderGroup = Boot Bus Extender
[UHCI.AddService]
DisplayName = %UHCIMP.SvcDesc%
ServiceType = 1 ; SERVICE_KERNEL_DRIVER
StartType = 0 ; SERVICE_DEMAND_START
ErrorControl = 1 ; SERVICE_ERROR_NORMAL
ServiceBinary = %12%\usbuhci.sys
LoadOrderGroup = Boot Bus Extender
[ROOTHUB.AddService]
DisplayName = %ROOTHUB.SvcDesc%
ServiceType = 1 ; SERVICE_KERNEL_DRIVER
StartType = 0 ; SERVICE_DEMAND_START
ErrorControl = 1 ; SERVICE_ERROR_NORMAL
ServiceBinary = %12%\usbhub.sys
LoadOrderGroup = Boot Bus Extender

Save and close file.
Open USBSTOR.inf:
Change / Add the lines in the [USBSTOR.AddService] section
[USBSTOR.AddService]
DisplayName = %USBSTOR.SvcDesc%
ServiceType = 1
StartType = 0
Tag = 3
ErrorControl = 1
ServiceBinary = %12%\USBSTOR.SYS
LoadOrderGroup = Boot Bus Extender
save and close.

Create a new file:
new file: USBBOOT.INF
Create a new file called USBBOOT.INF in the same directory as your other changed files, and put the following content into it:
[usbservices]

HKLM,"SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\USBSTOR","DisplayName",0x00000000,"USB Mass Storage Driver"
HKLM,"SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\USBSTOR","ErrorControl",0x00010001,1
HKLM,"SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\USBSTOR","Group",0x00000000,"System Reserved"
HKLM,"SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\USBSTOR","ImagePath",0x00020000,"system32\DRIVERS\USBSTOR.SYS"
HKLM,"SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\USBSTOR","Start",0x00010001,0
HKLM,"SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\USBSTOR","Type",0x00010001,1

HKLM,"SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\usbehci","DisplayName",0x00000000,"USB 2.0 Enhanced Host Controller Miniport Driver"
HKLM,"SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\usbehci","ErrorControl",0x00010001,1
HKLM,"SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\usbehci","Group",0x00000000,"System Reserved"
HKLM,"SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\usbehci","ImagePath",0x00020000,"system32\DRIVERS\usbehci.sys"
HKLM,"SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\usbehci","Start",0x00010001,0
HKLM,"SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\usbehci","Type",0x00010001,1

HKLM,"SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\usbhub","DisplayName",0x00000000,"USB2 Enabled Hub"
HKLM,"SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\usbhub","ErrorControl",0x00010001,1
HKLM,"SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\usbhub","Group",0x00000000,"System Reserved"
HKLM,"SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\usbhub","ImagePath",0x00020000,"system32\DRIVERS\usbhub.sys"
HKLM,"SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\usbhub","Start",0x00010001,0
HKLM,"SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\usbhub","Type",0x00010001,1

HKLM,"SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\usbuhci","DisplayName",0x00000000,"Microsoft USB Universal Host Controller Miniport Driver"
HKLM,"SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\usbuhci","ErrorControl",0x00010001,1
HKLM,"SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\usbuhci","Group",0x00000000,"System Reserved"
HKLM,"SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\usbuhci","ImagePath",0x00020000,"system32\DRIVERS\usbuhci.sys"
HKLM,"SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\usbuhci","Start",0x00010001,0
HKLM,"SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\usbuhci","Type",0x00010001,1

HKLM,"SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\usbohci","DisplayName",0x00000000,"Microsoft USB Open Host Controller Miniport Driver"
HKLM,"SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\usbohci","ErrorControl",0x00010001,1
HKLM,"SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\usbohci","Group",0x00000000,"System Reserved"
HKLM,"SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\usbohci","ImagePath",0x00020000,"system32\DRIVERS\usbohci.sys"
HKLM,"SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\usbohci","Start",0x00010001,0
HKLM,"SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\usbohci","Type",0x00010001,1

7. Repack the files:
At the command prompt in the directory where you changed the files, type the following:
cabarc n USB.IN_ usb.inf
cabarc n USBPORT.IN_ usbport.inf
cabarc n USBSTOR.IN_ usbstor.inf
8. Delete the files:
usb.inf
usbport.inf
usbstor.inf
9. Move the following files back into your i386 directory for windows XP:
USBBOOT.INF
DOSNET.INF
TXTSETUP.SIF
USB.IN_
USBPORT.IN_
USBSTOR.IN_
10. Unpack your Bootextract software to a temp directory.
11. Use BootExtract to read the bootsector from your XPSP1 CD. Here's the text from when I did it:
C:\BootExtract\Release>BootExtract.exe F:
CD/DVD-BootImage-Extractor v1.0 © Jochen Kalmbach
http://blog.kalmbachnet.de/

Reading boot-record-volume from sector 0x11
Valid boot-record-volume found...

Reading boot-catalog from sector 0x13
PlatformID: 80x86
ID-String: Microsoft Corporation

Processing Initial/Default-Entry...
Boot-Indicator: Bootable
Emulation: No emulation
Load segment: 0x0000
Sector count: 4 (2048 bytes)
Starting sector: 0x142
Writing 'Drive-F.NoEmulation__Segment-0000__SecCount-4.bin'

C:\BootExtract\Release>
12. Start up Nero, put your blank disk in, and start a new bootable CD project
13. On the boot tab, select the file that bootextract made for your bootsector. Enable Expert settings. Set "Kind of Emulation" to "No emulation" set load segment of sectors to 0000. Set number of loaded sectors to 4. (note, these settings should match what Bootextract reported. If your XP CD gives you different info, then use that info.)

14. Add the files you have on your hard drive to the CD project.
15. Burn!

Ok, so now you have the xp install CD. Put it in your external CD reader and attach it to your EEE. Do not insert your SDHC card. Boot the CD. At Bios start, hit the ESC button to get the boot menu. Select the DVD drive and let it boot into windows setup. If it fails to boot, you did something wrong on your XP CD.

Proceed with Installing XP onto the 4GB internal flash drive on a FAT32 partition. Make sure you delete all four linux partitions. Durring install you'll see a lot of windows about unregistered drivers. Just hit continue anyways on all of these windows.

When windows boots for the first time, do not install any drivers or anything. First, you need to turn off the swap file, system restore, and the screensaver.

Then stick your USB thumb drive into the EEE with the following programs on it: Winhex installer, Hitachi Microdrive Filter.

Next copy the files from your thumb drive to the desktop and then properly remove the thumb drive.

Unzip the microdrive files to a folder on the desktop. And Insert your SDHC Card into the EEE.

You need to then Hit Start go to run, and type regedit. Navigate to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Enum\USBSTOR\
Inside that you should find a directory called something like Disk&Ven_USB2.0&Prod_CardReader_SD0&Rev_0100. Open it. Inside that you should find another directory wich is just a bunch of numbers. Open it. In the right pane you should see a key called "Hardware ID" Right click on it, and select modify. It should list about 7 lines of text. Copy ONLY the first line to the clipboard. Hit cancel, close regedit.

Open cfadisk.inf in the directory you unzipped the microdrive filter to

Edit the section called [cfadisk_device] so that rather than containing 11 lines, just have one line. The line begins with:
%MicroDrive_devdesc% = cfadisk_install,
After the comma, hit ctrl V to paste what you coppied from the registry into the file.

Save the file.

Go to Device manager. Under disk drives, you should see SiliconMotion and USB2.0 Card Reader. Right click on the card reader and click update driver. Direct the driver updater window to the Hitachi driver you just edited. It won't detect the driver automatically, you have to specifty that your supplying the disk for the hardware and force it to use the driver. After the driver is updated, you need to reboot.
After rebooting, Install Winhex on your EEE.

Open Winhex, go to the tools menu and select disk tools and then clone disk.

For the source media, select HD0 from under "Physical Media". Note this is not selected by default. Select HD1 Usb card reader for the destination under "physical media" not logical drives.
Make sure Copy entire medium is checked. Select Simultaneous IO. Set Start sector to 0. Hit ok. It will give you a help screen for some reason. Hit close. And then hit ok in the clone disk window again. This process will take about 20 minutes. Make sure you move your mouse every few minutes so that windows doesn't think there's no activity. Do not use the computer AT ALL while this is running. Afterwards, close the application.

Set your windows background to something different so that you can tell that you're booting to the internal SSD instead of the SDHC.

Reboot your computer, hit ESC at bios so that you can select to boot from the card reader.

When you boot, you should see windows with your old background. (IE, you've booted from the SDHC.)

At this point you have windows running on the SDHC. I assume that you can use a partition tool to recover the 4GB that you lost on your SDHC by doing this and also you should be able to restore your Linux to the SSD. I haven't tried either yet.

Good luck!

Edit: Clarified Fat32 partition.

Edited by CorvetteZ0606, 09 November 2007 - 04:31 AM.

[rozojc]

Could you post this to the wiki? I'd do it myself, but since it is a rather long tutorial I think you should get the credit ;-)

[smgoller]

Did you format ntfs or fat32 when you installed to the ssd?

[smgoller]

Can anyone suggest a freeware replacement for WinHex? Personally I'm going to try this with Acronis Disk Director since I already own that, but a freeware alternative would be very handy.

[CorvetteZ0606]

Sorry, I left out the format. I did everything in FAT32.

[CorvetteZ0606]

Quote

Can anyone suggest a freeware replacement for WinHex? Personally I'm going to try this with Acronis Disk Director since I already own that, but a freeware alternative would be very handy.

I imagine Acronis would do the trick. I own that too, but I had winhex more easly available so I tried that first. Now that it's working, I don't think I want to try anything too fancy until I hear that other people can repeat my results just in case it's more complicated than I'm aware of. I'm no genious at all this stuff. I'm just an EE student that likes messing with computers a bit.

[smgoller]

Quote

Quote

Can anyone suggest a freeware replacement for WinHex? Personally I'm going to try this with Acronis Disk Director since I already own that, but a freeware alternative would be very handy.

I imagine Acronis would do the trick. I own that too, but I had winhex more easly available so I tried that first. Now that it's working, I don't think I want to try anything too fancy until I hear that other people can repeat my results just in case it's more complicated than I'm aware of. I'm no genious at all this stuff. I'm just an EE student that likes messing with computers a bit.

No worries.

Here's a link to Hitachi Microdrive Filter, fyi:

http://www.xpefiles....nload.php?id=88

[CorvetteZ0606]

Update:

I formatted the SSD drive and Windows still booted fine from the SDHC.

I used Partition Resizer on the Ultimate Boot CD ver 4.11 (freeware) to recover my SDHC back to 8GB. I now have XP full installed on the SDHC with 6.2GB of free space and the internal SSD is blank too.

I have a feeling that one of the disk copying tools on the Ultimate Boot CD would do the same thing as Winhex for copying the SSD to the SDHC, but I didn't mess around with it since mine is already working.

[jacobsen1]

so now that this works, is there any way you can make an image of what's on the SD card? If so would it work on any Eee or just the one it was installed on? I'm wondering if you can back it up for your use later, and also if it's shareable since so many of us are struggling...

Also, it looks like you're using 1.8gb of space with your install. Any ideas as to weather or not this same process would work with other versions of windows (Tiny XP or fundamentals come to mind...)?

Great work though. I'll have to see if I can get this working myself tomorrow.

[CorvetteZ0606]

Quote

so now that this works, is there any way you can make an image of what's on the SD card? If so would it work on any Eee or just the one it was installed on? I'm wondering if you can back it up for your use later, and also if it's shareable since so many of us are struggling...

Also, it looks like you're using 1.8gb of space with your install. Any ideas as to weather or not this same process would work with other versions of windows (Tiny XP or fundamentals come to mind...)?

Great work though. I'll have to see if I can get this working myself tomorrow.

I'm currious about this myself. I was looking for my accronis disk tonight, but I haven't found it. I'd really like to make a backup of it because I want to install Xilinx ISE on it so I can do my schoolwork on it. But after this semester I won't need it anymore, so I'd like to be able to revert to a fresh install. Anyways, I'll have to look harder again tomorrow for my acronis disk.

Personally, I don't think it's legal to distribute a backup. But I would be willing to send you the driver files I explained making for the XP cd so you can make your own XP cd. That's really the most complicated part of the process. The rest is just time consuming.

[CorvetteZ0606]

I've never used TinyXP or fundamentals, so I really don't know about that. I would say if they're based on Windows PE, it likely won't work. The method I used basically tells windows to load the USB drivers first when booting windows. Then the microdrive filter tells XP that the drive is fixed rather than removable. This lets windows boot. Then I just coppied the 4GB SSD partition + MBR to the SDHC and then resized the partition to fill the drive.

Why would you want to run a limited OS like fundamentals when you can have the full blown XP?

As for other OSes, This will likely work with windows 2000 since its very similar to XP. (Haven't tried it though) It also might work with windows 2003 (but it also may not work.)

Anyways, I think XP is your best choice here.

I'm in the process of installing SP2 on my EEE. I'll let you all know how it goes tomorrow after class.

Goodnight!

[Ancalu]

and is there any way of doing it ,without having to format the SSD disk? I mean, Can you install the Xp directly to Sd card?.

Thanks in advance!

[smgoller]

Tip: Make absotively sure that when you reboot after the inital part of the install, that you hit esc and explcitly select the SSD, because it gives you time during the POST to see if the USB CD/DVD drive gets detected. I've had a number of times where the eee and the drive get mad at each other and the eee won't see it. Power cycling both the EEE and the drive seems to take care of everything.

If, after you reboot, it complains about not finding 'asms' on somethingiforget\CDROM0, that's what happened, the bios didn't see the optical drive.

[silurius]

Great job, CZ0606.

Quote

The rest is just time consuming.

Did you time the whole process and/or a time-per-step breakdown? Do you have a good time estimate? Screenies would obviously be great but may be a lot to ask. I'll try to create some when or if I try this out soon (although I have no idea what tool one would use to screen capture this stuff).

[smgoller]

Ok, I've got this up and running as well, with minor variations.

Instead of using BootExtract and Nero, I used NLite. ( http://www.nliteos.com )

Copy the full contents of your XP install CD to a directory.
Follow CZ0606's directions to modify the USB installation files

run nlite and customize (slipstream in SP2, etc) then create an ISO image (or burn directly to CD if you're so inclined)

It's a little simpler to do it this way, plus it allows you to strip out a bunch of crap you don't need if you so desire. I haven't done any extra stripping myself though, so you could conceivably hose yourself if you're not careful.

Also, instead of using WinHex I used Acronis Disk Director Suite. It allowed me to copy and resize the partition to fill my 8gb SD with no problems.

I've restored linux to the SSD (I highly recommend going out and buying a 1gb usb stick and using the DVD to turn it into a recovery stick. It's excellent and so easy to use it's not funny) and even better, apparently there's NTFS support so I can access the SD card from linux.

1.3GB used. I suspect I can shrink that down pretty heavily if so inclined.

[jacobsen1]

OK, since 2 people have now successfully got windows loaded, and used 2 different (but similar) methods/XP versions, I'm wondering if this will work with any XP once it's on the system?

IE install windows, then do these steps:

Quote

*Proceed with Installing XP onto the 4GB internal flash drive.
*When windows boots for the first time, do not install any drivers or anything. First, you need to turn off the swap file, system restore, and the screensaver.
*Then stick your USB thumb drive into the EEE with the following programs on it: Winhex installer, Hitachi Microdrive Filter.
*Next copy the files from your thumb drive to the desktop
*then properly remove the thumb drive.
*Unzip the microdrive files to a folder on the desktop.
*Insert your SDHC Card into the EEE.
*You need to then Hit Start go to run, and type regedit. Navigate to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Enum\USBSTOR\
*find a directory called something like Disk&Ven_USB2.0&Prod_CardReader_SD0&Rev_0100.
*Open it.
*find another directory wich is just a bunch of numbers.
*Open it.
*In the right pane you should see a key called "Hardware ID"
*Right click on it, and select modify.
*It should list about 7 lines of text.
*Copy ONLY the first line to the clipboard.
*Hit cancel,
*close regedit.
*Open cfadisk.inf in the directory you unzipped the microdrive filter to
*Edit the section called [cfadisk_device] so that rather than containing 11 lines, just have one line. The line begins with:
%MicroDrive_devdesc% = cfadisk_install,
After the comma, hit ctrl V to paste what you coppied from the registry into the file.
*Save the file.
*Go to Device manager.
*Under disk drives, you should see SiliconMotion and USB2.0 Card Reader.
*Right click on the card reader and click update driver.
*Direct the driver updater window to the Hitachi driver you just edited.
*It won't detect the driver automatically, you have to specifty that your supplying the disk for the hardware and force it to use the driver.
*After the driver is updated, you need to reboot.
*After rebooting, Install Winhex on your EEE.
*Open Winhex, go to the tools menu and select disk tools and then clone disk.
*For the source media, select HD0 from under "Physical Media". Note this is not selected by default. Select HD1 Usb card reader for the destination under "physical media" not logical drives.
*Make sure Copy entire medium is checked. Select Simultaneous IO. Set Start sector to 0. Hit ok.
*It will give you a help screen for some reason. Hit close.
*then hit ok in the clone disk window again.
*This process will take about 20 minutes.
*Make sure you move your mouse every few minutes so that windows doesn't think there's no activity.
*Do not use the computer AT ALL while this is running.
*Afterwards, close the application.
*Set your windows background to something different so that you can tell that you're booting to the internal SSD instead of the SDHC.
*Reboot your computer, hit ESC at bios so that you can select to boot from the card reader.
*When you boot, you should see windows with your old background. (IE, you've booted from the SDHC.)

[GlenMahoog]

What's speed like running off the SDHC card VS the SSD?

[chuddy1999]

also lets not forget that it should be okay to create a windows embedded image and run it from the sd car or even the usb pendrive, since the service pack2 release of embedded has added this feature.
when i get the chance in work i will run tap and see what i can do, will report back later
having the drivers on the dvd for xp helps a lot
i just need to take time to componentize them and then get on with it along with all the other million jobs to do

[cheesemp]

I've done similar with a USB HD. However you can just disable the internal drive in the BIOS and install straight to the drive. NOTE - It does mess up grub, but I'm just going to reimage Xandros on again.

[jacobsen1]

another question...
I noticed you say you NEED an 8gb HCSD card. Do you really need 8gb? I would assume 4gb would also work since you're copying an image of a 4gb drive right? Would even smaller work? The XP size is ~1.2gb, so would a 2gb card work or does it need to be at least as big as the drive you're imaging, not the image size?